Nick Confrey is no stranger to social media. After half a decade at Meta (then Facebook), he launched his own social media company Seam Social, 2.5 years ago.
Last week we sat down with him for a conversation around what motivated him to build Seam and where he’s currently at in the journey.
Here’s that conversation:
Great to be connected, Nick! Let's start with the basics. What is Seam?
So, Seam is a pinterest-like platform that allows users to collect content via what we call miniapps (apps that are built directly on Seam which enable people to express their creativity on the platform). We started building Seam about two and a half years ago and have raised our Seed round. We're currently a team of four.
How did your time at Facebook inform the way you think about social media?
That's a great question. I was at Facebook for 5 years and got to work on lots of cool projects there. The early Groups team in particular was a fun one to work on, it really felt like one of the best corners of the Internet at the time. I was able to see how lots of communities were using Facebook groups, everything from high school sports teams to support groups or meme groups. But one of the things that didn't sit well with me at Facebook, which also ended up being one of the reasons I left to build Seam, was the limited customizability for end-users due to the advertising model. Basically Facebook makes the majority of its revenue from advertising and I found the model to be fairly pernicious.
I say this for two reasons: - First of all, it sets up misaligned incentives with users. Facebook's incentive is to collect as much data as possible on its users in order to sell the most valuable information possible to advertisers. The best way to collect data is to encourage doomscrolling on platforms, which I don't think is good for users... - The other reason I think it’s misaligned is because the ad model impacts the potential for product customization. Advertisers want their ads to stand out, so we couldn't offer tailored product features to users, even though we'd get lots of requests for that kind of thing. High school groups would reach out asking to change the color on a story feature to match their high school mascot color, that kind of thing, and our policy just wouldn't allow it. Creating software that actually enables people to express their creativity is something that really matters to me.
I already didn't like the misaligned incentives and didn't think the next killer app would be incubated within a large Silicon Valley company. But I also knew I wanted to offer more personalized user experiences, and finally the urge just got to be too strong - I knew I had to start Seam.
So, let's talk more about personalization. Lots of initial ideas went into Seam, but one thing that stands out to me both here and also from knowing you personally, is just how important customization is to you.
Absolutely. The common thread over the last few years at Seam has been building a form of malleable software that users can take and make their own. Our V1 was a "Link in Bio" product as a drag-and-drop website where each piece of the site was formulated as a miniapp. We're no longer focused on just being a Link in Bio, but the role that miniapps play has stayed consistent over the years.
What are these miniapps?
They're basically easily programmable micro-apps of sorts. I actually tell people that if they're wanting to learn to code, doing it on Seam through miniapps is a great way to get started.
The miniapps do two things: 1- they allow people to build on top of the platform because people can customize them to make them what they want. 2- they're actually how people communicate on the app. Miniapps make all of the social posts on the platform vs users. People have created calligraphy miniapps, book plug-ins, and all sorts of things.
This is a miniapp called Layered Image, where you can use a cursor to slide over a picture to toggle it at different levels of saturation.
The miniapps are also a core part of our monetization model because users pay to unlock them. They're turning into an app store type feature, which is something which companies like Roblox have had a lot of success with in terms of leveraging UGC and micro-transactions using digital currency.
I think we are seeing lots of companies lean towards microtransactions for personalization. What we're interested in at Seam is scaling a miniapp store of sorts where users pay microtransactions to reward builders and also have a new tool to play around with.
There's kind of a playful element to this?
Definitely! We're leaning into gamification a lot. I think games and creative expression are the two easiest ways for people to connect online.
So, you have all of these miniapps and people communicate through them. But how do people commonly interact with each other on Seam?
Yeah, Seam is more similar to Pinterest than to Facebook or X. Even though the miniapps handle all the posting, you can build friendships there - people do. Our focus is on enabling people to connect around shared creative interests.
Something I think about a lot is how there are two different types of social media: - One is an influencer-media and it's all about developing a personal brand in order to grow - this kind of media is limiting personal expression because what often happens is that influencers become afraid of sharing content that is outside of their "brand" because they know people will unfollow them if they do. - The other kind is the truly social side of social media where people form direct relationships with one another based on personal connections.
With Seam, I wanted to offer a way for people to choose their level of interaction. So you can either follow a specific collection from a creator which only shows you updates from that collection OR you can follow them personally to see all of the things they create.
Do you do anything on Seam to highlight specific content curators?
Not yet. Right now if you follow someone, you'll just start seeing more of their content in chronological order. But it's a question that we and all other social apps will also have to figure out. Because there is something to be said for an algorithm that knows your interests and will tailor content to you. Say you haven't logged in in a few days, an algorithm would know to prioritize the most relevant content you've missed, vs the most recent, when you log back in for the first time.
Makes sense, sounds like something for down the road! And speaking of journeys, tell us a little bit more about your growth journey. A common hurdle for social apps is discoverability and retention. Any hacks there?
Yeah, so one of the things we did early on was partner with a game called Pixels, a web3 game in the metaverse. They're actually doing really well right now, but before they blew up, we basically subbed in for them as a social graph before they had their own. So when players walked around inside the game they'd come across different profiles and it was their Seam profiles that would pop up. That onboarded a ton of users in a short amount of time and partnerships like that were great initial distribution tactics.
These days we're doing lots of IRL activations with art programs at colleges. We actually just got back from SCAD in Georgia where we ran a contest for young designers and product designers to have them create miniapps. Not only were we able to get a lot of user feedback, but that was a great way to onboard groups of people in one go - the goal is always to onboard a whole network - the more friends you have on any platform, the more likely you are to stay on it.
I love that approach! And pivoting somewhat for this next question... When you started you had a bit of a web3 element, is that still the case?
Not really. Something I'm always doing when I build is that I'm constantly evaluating the gap between the claims of what technology says it can do vs what it can actually do. When it comes to crypto, there's lots of benefits to digital currencies that can be incorporated into Seam, and we're still experimenting with some of those concepts particularly when it comes to points.
But the whole app doesn't need to run on crypto rails. I guess the counter to this is that if we DID build fully on crypto infrastructure rails, well, if God-forbid anything happened to Seam, the content would still live onchain. And maybe that would be a strong value prop for users, but I think that remains to be seen.
That feels like a very grounded perspective. So, I'd love to zoom out a bit and talk about social media at large for a sec. Do you think large social media companies will ever change some of their models to make them more user-aligned, or is it really going to take a lot of alternative social platforms popping up to create alternative social tech systems?
Well on one hand, the more users networks have, the more valuable they become. But on the other hand, I think we're also going to context collapse on these large social platforms. With some of them, you hit a wall where you just can't be fully yourself anymore simply because there are too many people there. Take Facebook for instance. Most of my social graph there is 10+ years old, many of who I've fallen out of touch with. I think we're seeing lots of people these days retreat towards more private spaces.
I mean even Netflix is getting in on this. The other day I turned on Netflix and a little pop up appeared that asked me if I wanted to play a game while I was finding my next film to watch.
Love that macro-take. Any concluding thoughts for us as we wrap up?
Just that I fundamentally believe that programmable software is necessary for people to be able to express their creativity in ways that are authentic to them. If we can give people that opportunity, why wouldn't we?
Nick, thanks for your time. What's the best way for people to connect with you?
Thank you! You can find me on Twitter here :)
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